Ep. 83 – Abigail Best – Purposeful Leadership

Interview with Abigail Best

[00:05:52] Mich Bondesio:

So welcome, Abi. It’s lovely to have you on the show.

[00:05:55] Abigail Best: Thank you for having me today.

[00:05:57] Mich Bondesio:

My pleasure. So I was recently introduced to you and your company, Lemongrass by Magdalena Rungaldier of Map Boutique Consulting in Zurich. Some listeners may remember Magdalena, because she was a guest on the Creating Cadence Podcast in episode 62, where we spoke about the link between sustainability and creating more freedom in our lives.

So Abi, ever since that intro, I’ve been really looking forward to chatting with you, especially because your business is a certified B Corp and an accredited four-day week employer, which is a work style that I’m a huge fan of. But before we get into all of that, let’s start with you.

Please can you tell us more about your current life and work context? Where do you find yourself in the present moment?

[00:06:35] Abigail Best:

Oh. So yeah, I was thrilled when Magdalena introduced us. She’s a close working partner of ours. So I was thrilled to have that introduction. So I’m Managing Director at Lemongrass Marketing. I’ve been at Lemongrass for 13 years and really grown my career there. I guess started from the beginning and then grown with the agency as we’ve been going through.

I’m a mom of two young, young boys. So thrown into the mix, a massive part of me is obviously being a mum to them, but, you know, leading our team of 15 here in Oxford actually. So yeah, working mum. Leading a team of 15 in a very fast-paced environment of PR.

[00:07:14] Mich Bondesio:

Indeed. Yes, and it sounds like a very busy and full life that you have.

So because of the work that I do around intentional productivity and advocating for building more supportive foundational practices that can help us work and live better, I always ask my guests to share a bit about their personal wellbeing and productivity tips and hacks.

So do you have any regular practices or routines and rituals that you do to support your wellness and to be more focused, in your work, in what sounds like a very busy life? And how do you deal with the challenges that might come with sticking with them, within that life?

[00:07:43] Abigail Best:

Yeah, there’s certainly lots of challenges and no matter how many kind of habits you put in place, there’s always a curve ball that comes through. And I’d say this is something that I’ve worked really hard on over the last couple of years particularly as kind of my responsibility and role within the agency has grown.

It’s something that I’ve seen is really important. If I don’t prioritise myself and look after how I am, then, you know, things tend to go a little bit to pot and can go a bit astray. So what I do for myself I actually worked really closely with a health coach a couple of years ago and still working currently.

Just really from the educational point of view. So I learned a lot about the importance of having a really high protein breakfast. These things sound so small, but, and I thought, oh, what, what impact is that gonna have? But actually it does have a big impact on how you start your day. So for me, a high protein breakfast at the start of the day is non-negotiable. Have to do that, have to start right.

And for me, movement as well, I try and do at least 10 minutes of movement. First thing, whether that’s yoga or a quick strength workout, it’s literally 10 minutes in my kitchen or when I’m traveling for work, ’cause I’m often away. It’s something that I can take with me.

And if I know that I can start with those two things that really, really helps me.

And there are other techniques that I’m trying to implement as well, such as gratitude and journaling. Because I know all know that that really helps. But I’d say those are my two kind of non-negotiables.

And getting out for fresh air. That’s part of the reason that I got a dog, the responsibility to get me outside doing some something outside in the fresh air.

[00:09:15] Mich Bondesio:

Absolutely. I love that, that um, impetus with a dog, you have no choice but to get out a few times a day.

[00:09:20] Abigail Best: Exactly.

[00:09:22] Mich Bondesio:

What I loved about what you’ve said there is that those are all quite small, manageable bite-sized things that you’ve managed to fit into your life based on the other demands around you. And I think that that’s a really important point for people to remember, is it doesn’t have to be a huge undertaking to overhaul your life.

It is about small, positive, consistent changes.

[00:09:39] Abigail Best:

Yeah. It can sometimes be really overwhelming. Like you, you can get a lot of, you need to do this or you need to do that, and you can sometimes think, oh my goodness, how, where do I start? So that would be one of my things is just start small and it’s amazing the impact it can have.

[00:09:54] Mich Bondesio:

Totally. And again the high protein breakfast is really important because it helps with our focus and concentration. We’re not being distracted by feeling hungry or affecting our energy levels. So really good point there. Thank you.

Alright, so I see that Lemongrass was founded almost 20 years ago by your CEO Mirjam, but tell us more about your specific journey to get to where you are now.

How did you get into sustainable PR and become such a passionate advocate for ethical travel?

[00:10:18] Abigail Best:

Yeah. So yeah, Lemongrass has been around for 20 years. Founded, like you say, but by Mirjam. And I joined really early on in my career in terms of moving into marketing and communications. I was previously more in retail and branding with retail. And I wanted to move more into the travel sphere and Lemongrass was an agency that caught my eye.

And at the time when I joined we had a really strong focus on, it was luxury travel. In all honesty, it was a lot of luxury hotels that we worked with. And as I grew in the agency and me and Mirjam worked very closely together to identify what was important to us. That was when our journey and our conversation started around becoming a B Corp.

How can we be more sustainable? And we did a lot of work on finding our values. And, being a four day working week, being a B Corp really leaned into our, our values of, you know, leading the way and for the greater good. Those are two core values at Lemongrass.

So I guess that having our core values really guided us on that journey to then see where we could make these changes and, and what that could look like.

And it’s been a long journey. We certified as a B Corp back in September, 2023. So already coming up to certification, but it took us a while to get to B Corp status, because we needed to, you know, dedicate the resources to that. But really coming back, it was our values that led us down the sustainability route and it really leaned towards kind of, you know, our beliefs, as people who we are as well.

That was, that was very important that we believed in the work that we were doing and the business that we were growing together basically.

[00:11:57] Mich Bondesio:

Hmm. That’s so interesting as well because the travel industry is notoriously very intensive in terms of carbon usage and so on. And so recognising the importance of making a shift in terms of how businesses may market themselves and their activities that they engage in, and being able to lead the way as a role model in terms of what you’re doing as well, I think is so important.

[00:12:17] Abigail Best: Thank you.

[00:12:18] Mich Bondesio:

So a core theme of creating cadence is about how we build better rhythm, pace, or flow into our life and our work and our businesses so that we can thrive and find meaningful success despite the challenges or uncertainties we face. I see you’ve mentioned that there’s a team of 15 of you and you’re all women as well, which I think is great.

So I’m interested to find out a bit more about your working policies when it comes to supporting your team to be their best selves at work and to help encourage a more flexible and sustainable work rhythm.

What types of practices do you advocate for in the office and what made you decide to implement a four-day week, and the other things that you do?

[00:12:53] Abigail Best:

Yeah, it’s a really good question. So the four day week again comes back to our values. So it was something we were discussing at the beginning of our B Corp journey. No other agency in PR has ever done a four day week. And it very much leaned into us wanting to lead the way and knowing that actually the way people are wanting to work is changing.

So how can we, you know, attract the best talent, hold onto the best talent, and give the best you know, service that we can. So we’d leaned into the four day week because it leant in with, with our values and it was you know, a real trial and error to start with, in terms of how we implemented it. Um, it wasn’t all plain sailing and because no one had done it before, we didn’t massively have anyone to follow or know, know how it would quite work.

So we trialed it for an initial couple of months and we varied the days that people were off. And then we did reporting, kind of checking in how everyone was finding it, and agreed that we had to have ways of measuring what, what was going on. We have an NPS score within the team to measure how happy they are, how, how they’re finding everything.

And so we, we measured what was going on very carefully there. And actually the implications to start with, with us all having different days off actually, wasn’t as great as we thought. Because you had some people off on one day, and then the people that were off on that one day felt like they were missing out.

So then when they came back the next day, they were then having to catch up. And so the more emails you send internally, the more you feel like you have to catch up. So we thought, well, this isn’t working the way we wanted. And actually it was causing more stress. In all honesty, people were quite anxious about their days off. And that you know, that wasn’t the whole point of it at all.

So we then changed it so that we’re all off on a Friday and immediately you could tell the difference. ‘Cause if you’re all off on the same day, you’re not creating those internal emails that you have.

So that’s what we’ve stuck with. We reviewed that, that worked. People are happy. It adds on a nice bit to the weekend. I think particularly we all love to travel. Some people are learning new languages. It just opens up the door for people to do more of what they, what they love. And having that time to switch off, whether you’ve got a young family and that means that you’ve just got another day to have with them, or it’s learning a new skill, or it’s volunteering, whatever that might be, people really use that four-day week.

So that’s one of the practices that we have in place. But alongside that, we also do hybrid working. So we have the team in the office on a Monday and that’s when we use our face-to-face time. We have lots of meetings, creativity, lunch and learns, everything like that goes on, on that Monday.

So, we try and make sure anything face to face that needs to happen is prioritised for that Monday. And then the rest of the week we’re working from home and some people use that and they, they work abroad maybe sometimes. It’s not all the time, but there’s that option there. A lot of the team are out and about in different areas of the UK meeting the media and everything like that.

So we’ve got a flexible way of working, where people are in the office on a Monday, and then the rest of the time they’re working from home. And again, the way we’re kind of tracking how this all works is very much to our NPS and regular check-ins with the team as to how do they feel it’s going, what does it look like? And also checking what, what the impact is on our clients and the service, ’cause we’re a service provider.

Um, People often think, you know, how on earth can you do what you do just in four days rather than five? And so it’s been important to track that obviously our clients are still happy and happy to report that we’ve got very happy clients through our NPS. Yeah.

[00:16:31] Mich Bondesio:

Oh, that’s amazing. I love everything about what you’ve described there. And I can appreciate that there’s a lot of trial and error that goes into it, but I love that you’re tracking with data so that you can get a sense, strong sense of what’s working, what’s not, and adapt and adjust as you need to.

So Abi, speaking about the four day week, what are the benefits that you’ve found as a result of implementing this?

[00:16:51] Abigail Best:

Yeah, so we’ve been looking really closely at what the benefits are and actually there are some really tangible ones that can come down to the bottom line and the money side of things, as well as obviously the benefits for the team.

So one of them from a money side is the recruitment fees. We don’t have to pay for recruitment anymore to get the team. We’ve increased our pool of talent that’s coming to us. I think that’s from the four-day week, the appeal of the four-day week. Equally our hybrid working as well, meaning that people are happy to travel a little bit longer on a Monday if they’re only having to do it once.

So that’s a huge benefit for us is the recruitment side of things. More people applying better talent and not relying on recruiters, which we have done in the past.

Also, our staff retention is way higher than the industry average at a PR agency. And staff churn in a, in an agency can be extremely high, I think because of the, the pressure and the nature of the work.

And people jump from one agency to another, and actually we hold onto our team much longer. And that ultimately ends with happy clients, because there’s nothing worse than having a team in place and then they leave and then you’re client feels like they’ve got a new team member to get to know. So holding onto our team is really important for us and, you know, developing and growing them.

And our clients have been with, you know, the same team members as they’ve been on their, on their journey. So staff retention being up is huge.

And also awards, we’ve, we’ve won some awards for what we’ve done with our team. We won the Sunday Times “Best Places to Work” ,So yeah, there’s, there’s lots of benefits that we’ve seen and it’s also changed the clients that are coming to us as well.

You know, they want to find a company that aligns with their values, those that hold onto their teams, so that they don’t have to deal with lots of team changes. So it is really had a knock on effect in, in all areas in a really positive way.

[00:18:38] Mich Bondesio:

That’s fantastic. And given that you’ve all decided that you don’t work on a Friday, has that had any impact on your clients or how do you manage those expectations in industries which pretty much operate 24/7?

[00:18:48] Abigail Best:

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, travel’s always on. Our hotels and destinations are open 24/7. So yeah, that was one of the main concerns and questions that we had when we were deciding this.

We actually have someone who’s on call every Friday, but because the team’s the size it is, it means you are on call one Friday every 15 weeks or something like that. So it’s very, very little. And actually when we’ve talked to our clients about it, they’ve been really excited.

And again, this leads into our value of, of leading the way. Other people are thinking, oh, you know, what could this look like for, you know, the company that I work for?

Or it changes how they believe work should be. Like this, this kind of pre-considered vision that it’s nine to five and you have to be locked to your desk. So it’s really challenging the way they think and it hasn’t had a knock on effect on them. If anything, it’s got them really excited and they always ask us how it’s going.

[00:19:41] Mich Bondesio:

Oh, fantastic. Well, thank you so much for sharing about that.

I had a little read of your impact report from last year, and I see that you also have some other interesting things in place that support your team, but also help to support the planet and communities. Things like using an ethical pension provider and having an employee carbon budget, which I’d like to hear more about.

And you also have some green travel policies. Can you talk a bit around those?

[00:20:03] Abigail Best:

Yeah, absolutely. So it’s great you read our impact report. That was our first one. It felt very scary, it really felt like opening up the doors for everyone to see inside the company and the real heartbeat of what goes on. So yeah. The other practices that we’ve got, we’ve got our ethical pension provider that we moved to.

That was a move that we did again a couple of years ago in alignment with when we were going through the B Corp process. We also switched banks as well, so we’re more of a more ethical bank now as well. So it wasn’t just a pension side, but it was also our banking. Much to our FDs delight, because ethical banking isn’t always straightforward.

[00:20:38] Mich Bondesio: No, there aren’t a lot of providers available either.

[00:20:42] Abigail Best:

It is tricky. It was tricky, but we did it. It’s not always the easy path. But it was the right one. So, so we pushed through with that.

With the carbon budgets. Absolutely. We’ve got, as you mentioned at the beginning, travel is, you know, when people think about travel, they think, you know, it’s very carbon intensive, which it is.

You know, there’s no getting away from that. But equally, there’s very positive effects that travel can have on local communities and those places that you’re visiting.

So we did want to have a look very closely at our carbon and how we could reduce that. Our first thing was the reduction of that and that involved, you know, really analysing where all our carbon was coming from. A huge percentage of that was coming from our business travel. So travel that we did as a team, whether that was to events to see our clients. We go on fam trips when we start working with the new clients, so we can go and visit them. And a lot of that was just like, well, this is what we need to do. We still need to see our, see our clients. But then we looked at how, how can we reduce that.

So anywhere that we can get to by train, we will do. I’ve been to Berlin, Switzerland. I’ve changed the way I travel now to reduce my carbon, and any trips are done by train. Also combining our trips. So the team are encouraged to, we’ve got a lot of clients in the Dolomites region, for example.

So if we’re gonna be out there, how can we visit different properties while we’re out there? And the same for our journalists that we work with, if we’re flying them there. How can we combine?

So it was a real shift in how we thought about how we traveled and how we can combine trips and our work to make sure that we’re having that reduction in carbon that we need to see.

And then individually, we each have a figure set above our head that we report on. I do it weekly with our Director of Nature, which is a new role that we’ve got within the team.

[00:22:32] Mich Bondesio: Lovely.

[00:22:33] Abigail Best:

And I look very closely at kind of how we’re doing with those carbon budgets. And I’ve just actually given the quarterly update to the team where again, we show everyone how we’re doing and what that looks like.

And it gives everyone a real sense of ownership because they can have a real direct impact on that reduction. And you can see the difference between choosing to travel somewhere short haul, via plane, or jumping on a train. So it’s very visible for everyone to see.

We’re also carbon literate actually, that’s another really important factor that came into that side was making sure that people understood what we were talking about when we were talking about the various scopes.

So the full team have gone through carbon literacy training and we are a certified silver carbon literate agency. So that all came under that remit of education and reduction and then implementation and measurement and what we could do.

So that was the carbon side. And then the other ones you mentioned are like our green travel policy that, you know, builds again into that carbon reduction, is how we’re thinking about travel. Does two of us need to go. Or is it okay if one of us goes. Do we even need to be there physically? Could we join virtually? It’s a kind of mind map of thinking actually, are we being as sustainable as we can when we come to making these choices as to how we travel?

[00:23:49] Mich Bondesio:

I love that, you know, really being conscious and intentional in every decision you make around your business and the impact that it has, and a really simple change that people can make, which I saw is that you mentioned that you use a train ticketing platform called Train. Train Hugger, which I’d never heard of before, but I am an avid train traveler, so I will definitely be using that from now on.

[00:24:08] Abigail Best:

It’s brilliant. And it’s really similar to Trainline. Like it is the same text. It doesn’t feel like you’re using anything different. And I’ve met the founder an event and I hadn’t heard of it. And that was an immediate switch we made. And it’s brilliant. Yeah, I’m a big advocate for it.

[00:24:23] Mich Bondesio:

That’s super for my listeners where every time you buy a ticket, they plant a tree for you. So I’ll share the link for that in our show notes as well. Fantastic. Thank you. Alright, let’s talk a little bit more about the work that you do for your customers. From what I’ve seen on your website, you have an amazing array of clients that span the world.

How does what you do help your clients to maintain momentum in what they do, and what impact does your sustainability focus have on who you choose to work with?

[00:24:49] Abigail Best:

Yeah, so, our status as a B Corp has really changed the type of companies that we work with and, and those that approach us as well. It’s been a real switch, I think. People, brands recognise a company that shares the same values as them, and the B Corp certificate obviously kind of helps put that stamp of approval on it.

So, we work with some incredible brands and that ranges massively from, from the destinations to the hotels, to the tour operators, and we pick them up with where they are on their sustainability journey. They’re all at a different stage and they’ve all got different priorities as well.

And they’ve also got different internal teams as well. So some of the brands we work with are really small and how we help them keep momentum is by being an extension of their team essentially. We don’t like to be seen as external and sat somewhere different in a different office. We become integral to their team, and just like their colleagues, work very closely with them on moving the brand forward and identifying what’s important to them as a brand.

So we, we pick them up where they start and the first thing that we really wanna do is work out what’s important to them. What, what are they trying to do and achieve, and what are their goals as a business.

And that will vary greatly across a destination, or a hotel or, or a tour operator. And then we dive into strategies around, you know, how they can communicate.

Everything that we do is about the communication side of things. So the sustainable storytelling element. Lots of these brands that we work with are doing amazing things with local communities. Or they’ve got amazing energy systems in place, which are really techy.

And a lot of them are really nervous about how to talk about sustainability, or more conscious travel decisions, and regenerative travel. All those different words that can be used. A lot of them are very unsure about how to do that.

So we give them the confidence and guidance to go out into the world, whether that’s what they’re saying on their website. Or the journalists that they’re talking to, or what they’re saying on their social media. We can come at it from all the different communication angles and really just start from where they’re ready to go from, from that point.

[00:26:58] Mich Bondesio:

I think that’s brilliant and I, I think in a situation like that, there must be a lot of trust that’s required, the relationships that you build. So I’m presuming that you have quite longstanding relationships with your clients, is that correct?

[00:27:09] Abigail Best:

Yeah, trust is a huge, huge part of what we do. And our client is on average with us about eight years, which is a huge amount of time. And, and we grow, we grow with them. When they first start with us, they might want to start with something quite small and then their, their cha their needs change as they grow as a company as well.

We’ve worked with one brand, started as one property and now we’re up to five properties and we’ve grown with them through that process. And it can sometimes feel a bit like counselling with our, with our clients, in all honesty. But that’s what they need and I think that’s where we can really help and guide them.

It’s just to be a listening ear. And we’ve got that experience within the industry. We’ve worked with all sorts of brands. We’ve done hotel launches. We’ve done brand new destinations that no one’s heard of. Or destinations that are struggling with over-tourism, for example. So us bringing our expertise just gives them that reassurance and knowledge that they can talk to someone that’s been through this before. Knows what they’re going through and can take them through step by step, kind of handholding them along the way.

[00:28:14] Mich Bondesio:

That’s wonderful. So nice to hear. Thank you. All right, so we’re moving on to the final question for you, Abi, which relates to life lessons.

What words of wisdom or key insights can you share with my listeners based on your personal experience of life or work or business so far?

[00:28:28] Abigail Best:

That seems a big question, but a, a good one to end with. I’ve got a couple which I think, you know, relate into how you talk a lot about creating cadence. And I think for me, you know, there was this always illusion of you can get the perfect balance in it. It’s gonna be a balance and actually it ebbs and flows and you need to be able to have practices in place that you can go along with that and go with the peaks and, and the troughs as well.

And for me it’s the realisation that the answer is not to work harder and longer. PR is notorious for that. It’s like, you know, you work very long days, it’s non stop. You don’t switch off. But actually, you know, this reassurance that actually it’s not working harder and longer, it’s being more clever with how you work , is a big kind of life lesson that I’ve had.

I think there’s been stages where, yeah, you know, I’ve thought just working all night would be fine and it, and it’s not. So the realisation of that, I just hope that people hear that really early on in their career. And I’m often saying it to the team as well. You know, don’t work harder or longer, it’s just about being clever with how you work.

The importance of looking after yourself. Again, personally, I’ve just seen the impact of having little routines, small things. They’re not, they’re not massive things. I don’t have huge chunks of time, but little habits that you can implement can make a huge, huge difference.

And from a work point of view but equally within life as well is kind of being clear on goals and expectations.

So that’s expectations from yourself, expectations from those that you work with, and expectations of our clients. And being really clear from the beginning what those expectations are. I think if you’re clear on those at the beginning, you can only build to more, to more success. So yeah, being super clear on those goals and expectations from the start is, you know, a no brainer for me now.

[00:30:20] Mich Bondesio:

Those are fantastic pieces of advice and I think really important because you know, as you mentioned, you’re a mum of young kids. You are setting the example on what work should look like and what life should look like for them, by doing things that support yourself better, improve your communication, support your health, and so forth.

So thank you for sharing those. I appreciate it.

[00:30:38] Abigail Best: Thank you.

[00:30:40] Mich Bondesio:

Alright, as we end off, please let my listeners know where they can find you online.

[00:30:43] Abigail Best:

Yeah, absolutely. So you can find me on LinkedIn. Abi Best. We’ve also got our Lemongrass Travel PR LinkedIn which is a good one to follow for our newsletters and updates there. Sign up for our newsletter online: lemongrassmarketing.com and our Instagram: @pr_lemongrass. And yeah, we’ve got a webinar series that we’re running at the moment so people can stay up to date with, with different things that we’re doing there.

[00:31:08] Mich Bondesio:

Oh, that’s fantastic. I’ll share links to all of those and also to your latest impact report, and I see you have an annual travel trends report as well, which I’ll include.

[00:31:15] Abigail Best: Yes. Yes, we do. That comes out at the end of the year. Yeah.

[00:31:19] Mich Bondesio:

Fantastic. Thanks so much for being here, Abi. It’s been so lovely to chat and to hear more about the good work that you and your team are doing.

[00:31:25] Abigail Best: Thank you so much for having me.

[00:31:28] Mich Bondesio:

What I loved most about this conversation with Abi is hearing about how human-centred Lemongrass’ approach is to the way that they implement sustainable practices, for both themselves and their clients.

So my question to you is listening to all of the tangible benefits of the way they work, how could you not want to implement more flexible working practices for you and your team, too?

As Abigail points out in her examples, it doesn’t have to be a big uncomfortable shift. As with her personal practice, which involves tiny, manageable habits that she can do consistently anywhere at a cadence that suits her, the same applies to making change in your business. Subtle shifts that you can track and tweak, ensure that you are more likely to maintain momentum over the long haul.

So that’s it for this season. I’ve learned so much from each of my guests and I hope that you’ve enjoyed it as much as I have.

The next season of the podcast will be back after the summer break when we kick off Season 14 in September, 2025. And I’ll be chatting to some more amazing guests, doing great things around building more sustainable businesses to support our people, planet and profit better, and to leverage business as a force for good.

In the meantime, if you have thoughts or ideas about these topics, please do get in touch, i’d love to hear from you. You can drop us a line at hello@creatingcadence.co.

So until next time, keep moving forwards with courage, curiosity, and cadence.