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Ep. 38 – Community Connections – Jerod Morris

In this episode with Jerod Morris, we talk about the power of online communities, the importance of good leadership and purpose-driven Web3 projects, and lessons learned so far about creator coins and NFTs. 

Resources referenced in this episode are listed below the transcript.

Creating Cadence Transcript – Ep. 38

For season 7 of the Creating Cadence podcast, we’re going back to the future, to explore current trends with emerging technology such as the metaverse and AI. I’m also talking to people doing fascinating things with these forward-thinking tools.

Why is it important to go beyond the content to create connections, and how can we use emerging technology to create and solidify those bonds? In this episode, we’re looking at the power of online communities and important lessons about creator coins and NFTs.

Hi, and welcome to Creating Cadence. A podcast for Life and Work in Motion.

I’m your host, Mish Bondesio, a writer, speaker, coach, and consultant.

It’s my aim to help high achievers stuck on the treadmill of hustle culture to transform how they approach life, work, and business to activate more of their potential and perform better in every part of their life at a cadence that’s more suitable to them. Despite this fast-paced world we live.

So this is episode 38, the third of season seven, published in October, 2022.

For this season, I’m taking another look at emerging technology and its implications for our near future. My guests this season are helping us to learn more about this technology and to consider how we can use it to help us transition in our work and wellbeing.

  • Episode 36 looked at some of the trends related to emerging technologies, and I also introduced you briefly to my guests for season seven.
  • In episode 37, I chatted with Caitlin Krause about the Mindful Metaverse.

In today’s episode, I’m lucky enough to get to talk with Jerod Morris.

Jerod has been building online communities since 2008.

Today he is the Chief Community Officer for Movement Ventures, where he and partners Brian Clark and Trudi Roth, help freelancers and solo entrepreneurs to build successful online businesses that support their lifestyle rather than dictating it. Jerod is also the founder and CEO of The Back Home Network, a sports and culture community serving fans and alumni of Indiana University.

His life philosophy is simple, balance, pride, and humility. And having known and interacted with Jerod for a few years now, I can honestly say that he’s an all-around genuine good guy who’s extremely supportive and nurturing in the communities that he oversees, always on the lookout to create meaningful connections within those communities and further afield.

In this episode, we talk about everything from managing online communities, to playing move-to-earn games with his daughter. He also gives a frank account of the good and bad business lessons learned from experimenting with social tokens and why he thinks NFTs are a better future bet for solo entrepreneurs and small businesses.

As always, any resources mentioned will be linked to in the show notes, which you can find at creatingcadence.co (see below this transcript).

So if you’re ready, let’s dive into this conversation with Jerod Morris.

So welcome, Jerod. I’m so excited to have you on the show.

[00:03:03] 

Jerod Morris: 

Oh, me too. I’ve been excited ever since you first asked me. This is awesome. 

Mich Bondesio: 

That’s very cool.

Now, before I dive into asking you some questions, I just wanted to give the listeners some background and context for this conversation.

I think that we’ve known each other now for about four years, and how that came about is that I became a founding member of the community that you were building with Brian Clark, known as the Unemployable Initiative, 

And, over those years, I’ve done some talks for the community. You’ve very kindly invited me onto the 7 Figure Small podcast to be interviewed about Wellbeing and the Metaverse and Web 3, and I’ve also written some articles for Thinker’s Notebook, which is one of the projects that you’ve been involved in.

And then we were really lucky to get to meet and meet some of the other lovely Unemployable Community at the Creator Economy Expo that Joe Pulizzi organised in May this year in Phoenix. So I realised that over that course of that time, we’ve actually done quite a few collaborations together already.

[00:04:01] 

Jerod Morris: 

Yeah, we have, and it’s been great. And I think that your audience needs to know that you’re an absolute rockstar of a community member. You really are. I mean, I, I think, you know, the Unemployable Initiative I think has been successful and is the special community that it is because of community members like you. You know, people who step up and take initiative and have things to offer and offer those things, but also are just there to interact and be a part of the fabric of that community.

So, I would pretty much do anything that you asked me to do, simply out of a feeling of deference for what you’ve done to help me build the community. But also I don’t even need to go that deep cuz anything that you’re doing is really interesting and so I would wanna be involved in it anyway.

[00:04:41] 

Mich Bondesio: 

That’s awesome. Thank you so much, Jerod. I really appreciate it. 

Jerod Morris: 

All true. 

[00:04:46]

Mich Bondesio: 

Wow, blown away! This is supposed to be about you though, so let’s get onto that. I obviously, I know quite a lot about what you do and what your background is, but my listeners don’t. So I’d like you to give us a bit of a background on your experience and what kind of projects you’re involved in and what you specialise in as well in terms of your skills and experience.

[00:05:07] 

Jerod Morris: 

I always really struggle to describe like what I do, or, you know, when people say like, Oh, what do you do? I’ve always really struggled to kinda get that elevator thing. It’s like I am this. So I’ve kind of settled on, I build online communities, because really ultimately when I kind of look back over the last, I guess 14, 15 years of my career, when I transitioned into doing work online, that’s really what I’ve always done is build online communities.

And I didn’t really realise that when I started. I considered myself more of a copywriter or a content creator, you know, or a content strategist, but, over time, I’ve realised my natural inclination has always been to kind of go beyond the content and actually create connection, which is the foundation for communities.

And so whatever project it has been, that’s just kind of the way that I see the world and it’s just kind of the way that my natural enthusiasms and that my work, you know, ends up going. And so I think there’s a lot of different things that I do. You know, I think in some cases I’m an online business coach, you know, I do some copywriting.

Like, there’s, there’s lots of different things in there, but I think if you really summed it up, it would be building online communities. And fortunately, you know, the web, uh, has kind of, I guess, caught up with me in a, in a sense. And that community has, you know, it’s always been important, but it’s continued to grow in importance and the ability, the tools, to build communities, to engage communities have just gotten so much better.

Um, that it really, it’s a really exciting time to be in that field and to be doing it. So I’m very excited, but that’s probably, I would say the best way to sum it up. 

[00:06:38] 

Mich Bondesio: 

Okay. And tell me a little bit about the kind of main projects that you were involved in. Assembly Call and Movement Ventures. 

[00:06:45] 

Jerod Morris: 

Yeah, so Movement Ventures is a project I’m involved in with Brian Clark and Trudi Roth.

 Brian and I have been working together since 2013, when Copyblogger, uh, acquired the hosting company that I was a part of, and I left Copyblogger once my daughter was born, but then he and I stayed connected and when he was getting ready to turn Unemployable into a business, um, you know, we connected on that and I’ve been working with him on that ever since.

And so Movement Ventures kind of brings together some of those projects, uh, that he started Unemployable and Further and Future Freedom kind of under one umbrella. And you know, our, our big idea is to, you know, really help people who are looking to kind of make a midlife reinvention, um, looking to, you know, achieve the freedom that you can have when you’re your own boss.

So that’s a combination of obviously the work part of it and building an audience-based business, but also a lot of the stuff that you focus on, which is, you know, productivity and personal improvement. 

Mich Bondesio: 

Mm-hmm. 

[00:07:46] 

Jerod Morris: 

And health and wellness and all those things. So it’s all kind of together. Um, and I’m nominally the chief community Officer, and so am, you know, really involved in kind of building the community, uh, around those properties.

And then the Assembly Call is a project that I’ve had since 2011. It’s a, I’m a huge Indiana basketball fan and it is a podcast and community for Indiana basketball fans. And, you know, it can sound really silly that it’s just about some college sports team, but it’s a great community and I’ve learned so much from having that project.

Um, it’s so nice and I really recommend it to anybody if you can swing it to have kind of a side hustle. I don’t know if I like the term side hustle, but a side project that maybe it makes money, maybe it doesn’t, but it’s kind of a low pressure way to try stuff out. And so many of the things that I’ve end up doing, you know, for movement ventures or for clients or whatever have been stuff that I just tried on the assembly call cuz it’s like my little sandbox.

And our community has kind of been with us along the way. So it’s really, really fun. I really enjoy doing. Um, and, so those are, those have probably been the two biggest, longest-standing, most substantial projects. 

[00:08:52] 

Mich Bondesio: 

That’s really cool. And I totally agree with you about having a side project that you can experiment with and then apply based on the outcomes. You know, the failure is feedback, and, you’re committed, but because it’s not your main thing it’s okay if things don’t go the way they’re meant to. 

So, very cool. 

Jerod Morris: 

Yes. 

[00:09:09] 

Mich Bondesio: 

Now, the focus of the season of the Creating Cadence podcast is on revisiting a topic that I first covered a year ago, all around web and emerging technologies. And that covers everything from crypto and NFTs and other social tokens to AI and AR and VR.

Um, how did you get into using Web three technologies? When did you first kind of get interested and how did you educate yourself, especially in the beginning? 

[00:09:31] 

Jerod Morris: 

You know, Brian and I had been talking about, you know, AR and VR and, and some of these things for a while, but I really dove into it. I think it was probably April of 2021, if I remember correctly.

And, you know, my son had just been born a couple of months earlier. And he was really having a lot of trouble sleeping. Like he wouldn’t sleep in his crib. And so my wife and I had to do a lot of like holding him to get him to sleep and then we’d hold him while he slept. And so he’d be sleeping for like 90 minutes or two hours.

I’d be sitting in a chair just walking him around. And so I had all this time to just do research on my phone. And if you remember, at that time, this was like the huge crypto bull run, you know, when a lot of coins were reaching their all time high. 

Mich Bondesio: 

Yeah. 

[00:10:14] 

Jerod Morris: 

And it really kind of burst into the zeitgeist for the first time.

Like people had talked about, you know, Bitcoin, Ethereum and all that, but it was kind of over here and now it was really kind of breaking into the mainstream. And so, that timing just hit where I had all this time to do this research. And so I ended up over the next couple months, really getting into it, you know, first probably the bright and shiny possibilities of investing in cryptocurrencies , which seemed obviously really interesting and appealing, uh, and enticing at the time. 

But it pretty soon moved beyond that into learning more about NFTs. And for me, you know, the new trails that were being explored for community building, ownership and engagement, which really got me excited. And so, I really just tried to devour everything, um, and kind of dove in. And I typically tend to be someone who will dive in and try stuff and ask questions later. That has its benefits and drawbacks. Um, sometimes when it comes to investing real sums of money, it’s not the greatest way to go. But I kind of just gave myself just, you know, that, that education by just jumping in, um, and, was really, really intrigued, by what I saw and by the possibilities.

 But also, I think had enough sense even at that time to seek out alternate opinions and to seek out, because you know, at that time especially, it was all positive. Everything’s great, everything’s going to the moon. Mm. And. You know, I knew it couldn’t all be like that . So I, I tried to be cautious and make sure that I was reading both sides of it to, to, to take a balanced view, um, away from it.

But yeah, that was, that was really how it all happened. I have my son and his inability to sleep, uh, to thank. I’m sure I would’ve gotten into it anyway, but the timing just ended up working out really well. 

Mich Bondesio: 

Thanks to Teddy. 

Jerod Morris: 

Yeah. 

[00:12:10] 

Mich Bondesio: 

Okay, So moving along a little bit, based on that kind of knowledge and getting involved in things and experimenting and learning a bit more, you’ve taken some of those technologies and tools and you’ve incorporated them into the various projects that you’re involved in.

So can you tell us a little bit about what you’ve been doing, for example, with $Move Coin and also with the Assembly Call? 

[00:12:29] 

Jerod Morris: 

Yeah, so, you know, one of the things that was really big at that time was this idea of a creator coin and someone who had an audience, you know, minting their coin and using this coin to kind of align the incentives of the community together, in a lot of different ways.

And, you know, we had seen people like Joe Pulizzi launch a coin. And so through kind of seeing some of our friends do it, you know, got the opportunity through Rally, which at that time was kind of invite only, they were very specific about who they were gonna bring in, had the opportunity to do this.

Um, and all the coins that had, launched on Rally were, you know, doing really well, being very successful. And again, this was during that bull run time when everything was just going great. Um, and so you know, Brian and I decided this would be a good experiment for our community for a number of reasons.

You know, one that’s kind of the way that we like to teach is kind of doing experiments in public and sharing what we’re learning. And this was new. We certainly didn’t feel like we had all the answers, but we thought that we knew some of the right questions to ask. Um, and that doing this with the community would be a really fun experience, and a really educational experience. And it was. 

And the upside is if it goes well, you know, when you mint a coin on a, a platform like Rally, it can end up earning more revenue for everybody because of people who have the coin can earn rewards. If you, you know, have a coin with your community, you can make additional revenue, uh, from it as well.

Um, but even more than that, Something to just kind of get everybody energised, you know, and a new way to engage the community and to try to experience this new Web Three World first hand. And I think for a while it went really well. And I think overall it’s been a great experiment, but we really have seen the ups and the downs, the good and the bad of what a creator coin can bring. And it’s interesting because my perspective on it has really changed a lot from the beginning when we launched, and this seemed like, and you’ll remember this, when everything was going well, you and I had conversations about, you know, could you do a coin or could we, you know, put some people together into a community to do a coin.

Mich Bondesio: 

That’s right. 

[00:14:47] 

Jerod Morris: 

And I think back on some of those conversations, and with the benefit of hindsight and more experience now I would, you know, I wouldn’t recommend that. Now I do think a strategy with NFTs could work. Yeah. Um, but I would say, so we launched a coin with $Move. We launched a coin with $Home. And while I think the Creator coin model can work for certain audiences, um, and we can get into as many of those specifics as you want to. You know, it’s interesting because it, it’s kind of difficult to separate the benefits and drawbacks of a creator coin and also just the turmoil that Rally itself has had. 

Mich Bondesio: 

Mm-hmm.

[00:15:23] 

Jerod Morris: 

Because if you launch a coin on a platform that itself has turmoil and questionable leadership and a revolving door of people who have been there. Um, it can color your perception of the underlying technology itself. And I think creator coins themselves when done right can be fantastic. But I do think there’s a certain type of audience that you need.

Uh, and certainly, we’re still in this early phase where it’s, it’s a little bit too early for most people, to, to go out and use a creator coin the way that you would want it to be used. And Rally was kind of supposed to help bridge that.

Mich Bondesio: 

Yeah. 

[00:15:58] 

Jerod Morris: 

Overall in practice, it didn’t really work out that way. And so, you know, so both for $Home and $Move, I think we really saw the positives of it, which were the engagement of the community. People got into it. We learned a lot about what types of rewards work and don’t, what kind of utilities should you build into a coin? What kind of utilities should you not build into it?

Excellent learning experience, but ultimately, I think as we’re seeing with what’s happening on the Rally platform, a lot of those coins were doomed to not fulfill their long-term promise, simply because I’m not sure Rally has , and I don’t know when this is gonna run. So who knows, you know, what will have happened by then. But you know, for Web three, for the coins, for the NFTs, the market is just down and that’s affecting everything. And so, we’re in this place now where we’re gonna see what projects endure projects with a real purpose, with good leadership, with a strong community. And I’m not sure if Rally is gonna be one of those.

We’ll see. But unfortunately, I think some of the things that happened there and, you know, frankly, some of our own mistakes with it, which were mistakes of inexperience, and maybe even exuberance. Um, you know, meant that, that the coins probably couldn’t fulfill their promise, but two or three years from now when everybody’s a little bit more ready and the technology’s better, that may change.

So I think it’s really important to learn and observe and kind of take in the data and the experience, um, but also recognize that we’re still really early for some of this stuff. And so some of the failures that we have now can really turn into education that can help set the stage for 2, 3, 4 years from now when the infrastructure, um, and the market is a little bit more ready, for all this stuff. 

[00:17:42] 

Mich Bondesio: 

Yeah, I think you’ve made some excellent points there. And you know, being part of the community, we were all invited to experiment with you. And I think that we went in with our eyes wide open. We knew right from the beginning you had no idea how this was gonna turn out, but we all decided to join in because it was a learning experience for us too.

And even though obviously the $Move coin has been devalued quite considerably because of the fluctuations with crypto and so on at the moment, it’s still an incentive within the various communities of Movement Ventures – Well and Wealthy and Unemployable. You know, if we show up, if we meet our challenges, if we help people out, we get rewarded.

And even though at the moment the value of that reward might not be what it was six months ago or a year ago, it’s still, the token still has value in other ways, I think. Yes. So that’s important to note. 

[00:18:31] 

Jerod Morris: 

No question. And this is one of the biggest lessons that we’ve learned about creator coins. I’m glad that you brought it up. And it’s the same thing with NFTs in any of this stuff.

 I think you’ve gotta be really careful if the goal is to engage the community and, you know, give your community members a feeling of ownership in what you’re doing. It is really interesting to position it, and set expectations of not focusing on the value of the token itself. Because that can really change the relationship between you and your community members.

Cause you’re right, like the $Move coin, it can have value regardless of what the underlying value, you know, cuz a coin like $Move is tied to. Any of the coins on Rally are tied to the Rally token. And so as the Rally token goes up, Rally was trading above a dollar, I think, when we started. Now it’s trading at like 4 cents.

That’s gonna have, that’s gonna have a big impact, and it is easy to get disappointed when it’s like, Oh man, okay, I’ve got 500 $Move coins. Oh my gosh, they were worth $3,000. Now they’re worth. A few hundred dollars. 

Mich Bondesio: 

Yeah. 

[00:19:28] 

Jerod Morris: 

But yeah, that’s if you sell them. But the idea is to build in enough value so that people hold those coins. And now this is where the tricky part comes in because if you’re trading services that people would pay for, for the coin, you have to make a business decision on, if that makes sense for you. And this is why I think a coin can be very tricky to work from a business perspective. So I’m not here to give a blanket statement on whether it works or whether it doesn’t, but I do think if you’re gonna do one, you’ve gotta be really intentional about separating people’s perceptions about where the value is coming from.

Because it’s really, it’s really easy to get real excited and advertise the price when it’s good. And be like, “Hey, we’re over a dollar. Things are going great and it’s party time”, but then when it drops, if that’s what the focus has been, well guess what? There’s gonna be disappointment that comes there, and we probably got caught up in that a little bit.

It’s hard to not get caught up in that. So that was a great learning experience. Um, but you know, you are seeing it now, I think Trudi is doing a great job of using the coin in Well and Wealthy as a reward and incentive. 

Mich Bondesio: 

I agree. 

[00:20:28] 

Jerod Morris: 

Um, there’s a lot. Scientific backing that even small little rewards that seem meaningless, you know, 5 cents, 10 cents can actually motivate people to take action.

Just having that reward there and getting it, there’s something about it and we’ve seen success, you know, with the coin doing that. And so I think using a coin like that to engage and incentivize an audience to take important actions, it can really have value and you don’t have to totally upend your business model and you don’t have to build everything around it, but it can be a nice just addition, to what you’re, to, what you’re doing. But again, I just think you have to keep it all in perspective, all this stuff. 

[00:21:04] 

Mich Bondesio: 

True. And I think as you said, you know, we are very early and there’s a lot that needs to still be cemented and, and kind of worked out. So time will tell how things unfold. 

I know that you, you’re also quite involved in a few NFT projects. So tell us a little bit about that cuz you mentioned earlier, you think that you would probably put a lot more cognisance in working with NFTs now than potentially with social tokens? 

[00:21:27] 

Jerod Morris: 

Yeah, I think it’s much easier to, you know, to find use cases and to design, um, I think an NFT project for a smaller type audience, than it is for coins. I think for coins you probably want to have a pretty big audience to make it work. I think with NFTs, You know, I mean, you could commit five NFTs, you could commit 10,000 of ’em depending on the size of your audience. And so there’s a, there’s a lot of different ways that that can go. You know, I think one thing that I’ve tried to do a lot more of now, I think at first with NFTs, You know, so the, the NFT culture was really so much about buying and flipping.

Mich Bondesio: 

Yeah. 

[00:22:07] 

Jerod Morris: 

You know, and the, and the investment part of it. And I probably got a little bit caught up in that in the beginning and have really done a 180 in the other direction and have really tried to find projects that I really like and that I believe in, and essentially look at it as, Okay, I wanna invest in this project for the long term. But I don’t, I don’t really care about getting a return on the investment. That would be a bonus. But in the meantime, I’m getting stuff that I like to use. 

And so, that’s really how I try to look at it. And I think if you’re thinking about setting up any type of NFT project, that is how you would want to think it through. You know, is okay, there’s gonna be a certain subset of people that, hopefully really buy into what I’m doing, would really like to be along for the ride. How do I give them a little bit more incentive and maybe even, you know, kind of a piece of what’s happening long term. 

Like, I’ll give you an example. I think what Brian Fanzo is doing with NFT 365 is fantastic. His, he, you know, he decided to take people along on this journey where he was recording a podcast every day for 365 days.

He’s passed day 200. I mean, and every day he does this, it’s amazing. And he’s also minting an NFT every day. 

Mich Bondesio: 

It’s incredible. 

[00:23:21] 

Jerod Morris: 

So, yes, it is incredible. And so he launched this NFT project with 22 founders NFTs. It was $5,000. And essentially, what you’re getting for this $5,000 is you’re supporting him, cuz obviously he needs some, you know, some capital to make these NFT purchases every day.

So you’re supporting this project if you believe in the vision. And at the end of it, he’s gonna sell what he’s calling the Mosaic NFT. So all 365 NFTs. And if you were one of the 22 founders, you get 1% of that sale price. Now that’s cool, but frankly, unless I’m like giving this example out, I forget about that 1% that’s coming.

What is really exciting to me is knowing that I had a hand in helping to support someone who I think has done a lot of good for the NFT space. And really tries to set people’s minds right and pushes back against the toxic stuff in NFTs. I just think I really have gained so much respect for Brian watching him carry this project out, and it makes me feel proud that I was part of it.

And it’s cool to have this ownership stake and other perks that come along with it. Like he is, you know, sent us other NFTs from projects he’s been in, so there’s other perks, you know, but also getting the little thing at the end, that’s a nice little bonus. 

Mich Bondesio: 

Yeah. 

[00:24:39] 

Jerod Morris: 

And so I think that’s the mindset shift that I think is really important. I’ve certainly made it in my own experience, which is instead of thinking, “Oh my God, I’ve gotta double or triple my money, or this is a failure!” it’s “no, I’m paying this money and I wanna get something for it”. Obviously, whether it’s feeling good for supporting someone I like, or utility that I’m gonna use, like another project I’m in is the Virtual Basketball Association. This will not surprise you at all, Mich. 

Mich Bondesio: 

No it doesn’t. 

[00:25:06] 

Jerod Morris: 

An NFT project on Solana where they minted, like, I don’t know, 12,000 like basketball players. Each player is an NFT and you buy your players and you put ’em in lineups and they have like this simulation algorithm and you play against other people who have teams.

My brother and I got some teams together and it’s like this fun thing that we do together . And sure, like this one player that we got, if we paid Two Sol, which is the Solano token, two Sol for him, maybe in a couple weeks he’ll be more valuable and we can sell him for five. 

I don’t really care. I’m just having fun playing the game cuz I like basketball. It’s fun, but at the same time I’m part of, you know, it’s, it’s very new. I’m part of it and yeah, there is an upside for being in there early, but that is tertiary, and so I think that’s the biggest lesson to learn from this stuff is, you know, the financial incentives are a really interesting part of it.

But the projects that are successful know how to put them in perspective and minimize them and make sure that the other stuff is what really matters. And you’re seeing the projects that last are the projects that have communities that care about the project because the founders have a purpose beyond making money.

And the community members have a purpose beyond making money and you’re there for something better. And if and when the money comes awesome and everybody can benefit together, that’s great. But when that is the first. You know, the first line of thinking, the first line of motivation, you are seeing projects like that fall by the wayside every single day.

Mich Bondesio: 

Yeah. 

[00:26:33] 

Jerod Morris: 

So it’s probably the biggest lesson that I’ve taken from this whole experience. And I think with $Move we got a little bit caught up in that just because, again, the timing of where the market was and I think if we could go back and do it again now with what we’ve learned, we would change some things about how we executed that. It was an experiment and you know, so you learn from it. 

[00:26:54] 

Mich Bondesio: 

I was just gonna say, it’s a really good point you’ve made throughout those different examples that you provided is it’s all learning by doing. And in some cases, learning in public as you do with 

Jerod Morris: 

Mm-hmm. 

[00:27:04] 

Mich Bondesio: 

The Unemployable initiative and as Brian’s doing with his, Brian Fanzo is doing with his NFT project as well. So I think that’s a good point is what are the learnings and it’s about more than just a monetary return. At this point in time. 

So, I want to move on a bit to more of a personal perspective. With all of these things that are going on, there’s a lot of talk around how they can support our creativity, but there’s also a lot of talk around how being online all the time and being in these metaverses, can they support our productivity? Can they support our wellbeing? You know, what are your thoughts on that? And are you using any of these technologies in those ways to support your productivity or your creativity, or wellbeing?

[00:27:40] 

Jerod Morris: 

I would say I’m trying to use them to support my wellbeing. Like there’s a couple projects. One is called Genopets, which is on Solana, which is like this move-to-earn project where you, uh, it hooks up with your step counter. And so then you can, you know, earn energy for this little Genopet thing that you have. My daughter and I like to do this together. 

Mich Bondesio: 

Okay. 

[00:28:02] 

Jerod Morris: 

And so it like grows and then there’s gonna be, you know, in the future, you’re gonna be able to battle your Genopets and watch ’em grow. So it’s kind of cool and your steps are what provide the energy for it to be able to grow.

And so that has been a nice motivation to kind of get out and and do things. And so that has helped. Um, but I think, baked into this question is something that’s so important, which is that it is really easy for all of this stuff to be distracting and to be consuming. 

And it, it really depends on your mindset. You know, I am someone that once I get excited about something, it’s, it’s really easy to dive in and then forget about other things and kind of get hyper focused on it. And so I really have to make sure that I’m intentional about pulling myself away. Staying focused on priorities. 

Mich Bondesio: 

Mm-hmm. 

[00:28:47] 

Jerod Morris: 

Because it’s just, you know, there’s always something new and exciting and it’s not inherently bad to go down those rabbit holes and explore cuz you find some really cool stuff and you, you can meet great people and you find great opportunities. But it is rather endless. And that is a good thing and a bad thing. 

So for every benefit that you can get from, diving into this new community and meeting really interesting people and building your network, there’s a, there’s an opportunity cost there cuz there’s something that you’re not doing.

Is it work? Is it family? Is it exercise? You know, whatever it is. And so that’s obviously gonna be different for everybody. But I do think that balance is gonna be really, really important because, you know, we’re obviously evolving more and more toward these lives where we have our offline life and we have our online digital life.

Mich Bondesio: 

Mm-hmm. 

[00:29:37] 

Jerod Morris: 

And they can be really different, you know? Cause online we have avatars and we have, you know, NFTs are this fundamental element for digital ownership, right? And so we own stuff online, we own stuff offline. And how, what is the right way to balance those two things? 

You know, how different are they? How alike are they? Um, I have no answers here. I just know these are some of the questions that I’m wrestling with, but it’s also one of my motivations to explore cuz I have two kids who are gonna grow up, you know, where this stuff is just normal. And I don’t wanna be out of the loop. Like, I wanna understand the context for their life, but at the same time, not let it consume me in the process.

And that can be difficult. I’ve struggled with it some. So, you know, if you are struggling with it, uh, you’re listening to the right podcast because Mish probably has some of the best advice and tools that, that you could possibly get. And I have used them and thought about them often, um, 

Mich Bondesio: 

Thank you. 

[00:30:34] 

Jerod Morris: 

To make sure that I try my best to keep things in balance. Because it’s exciting, you know, It really, it really is exciting and there are, there’s so many exciting projects happening. That’s the thing. There are so many projects I would love to jump into and get involved in and, and, you know, work on.

There’s just, there’s not enough time to do it, but it’s a really exciting time cuz there’s a lot of smart, motivated people out there trying to do some really great stuff. And you may have to search a little bit for it and get past the projects that are in it for, you know, less pristine reasons, I guess. Um, but there’s some really, really fun, exciting stuff being built. And this phase is especially exciting because again, a lot of the riffraff has been moved out. And so it’s, it’s really, really gonna be interesting to see what projects last.

[00:31:20] 

Mich Bondesio: 

I agree. And I think forewarned is forearmed, you know, especially if you have children. Yeah. It’s really important to kind of know what they’re gonna be exposed to. Yeah. And are already being exposed to. 

So the final part of the show, I’d like to get your thoughts on where you think things are going. What can we learn from what’s happening now? You’ve touched on this a little bit in what you’ve just said, but what do you think are the opportunities that we need to be looking out for and um, how can we leverage this to technology do you think, based on your experiences so far? 

[00:31:48] 

Jerod Morris: 

I think for most people launching a project, it’s probably not the right time for that. Again, that’s a big change from conversations that we had nine months ago, you know? Yeah. When, it kind of seemed like everybody should be diving into this. Um, and I think, and time has revealed that I don’t, you know, we’re all not quite ready yet, but I do think it’s a great time to get experience.

I think there are so many opportunities to build an ownership stake in projects that you believe in. You know, like I really believe in what these guys are doing with the Virtual Basketball Association. You know, they’re in it for the right reasons. 

Mich Bondesio: 

Mm-hmm.

[00:32:23] 

Jerod Morris: 

They’re big basketball fans. I think it’s gonna appeal to basketball people and I’m glad that I’m in on it early. To kind of support them and give my insight, you know, but also own some of these players cuz I think they’re gonna be fun to use and I think they’ll maintain their value cuz it’s a good project. And so there are several projects like that, you know, where I think you can, you can get involved early and, and get really good experience in what a good community looks like in web three.

But, and I think it’s also a time to. You know, to be going out there, to be seeing what works and kind of taking mental notes for, okay, what might work then if I wanna launch one of these. If I wanna engage my most fervent supporters, and get them going, how might an NFT project work? Okay, this one over here. Wow, so they meant to 20 NFTs. While they’re building a SAS product before they have it out and the 20 people who buy the NFTs, you know, get this whole. Oh, that’s interesting. Okay. I might be able to do that with mine. So seeing what works, what’s working out there for other people and just making notes of it for when, you know, for when maybe the timing, um, is a little bit better.

But there’s a lot of stuff to shake out. You know, it’s gonna be interesting to see what happens with regulation, cuz I think there’s probably a lot of regulation that’s coming to the space. That’ll be good because it’ll provide clarity. Um, and probably make a lot more people feel more comfortable, you know, kind of diving in.

But I think, I do think about it a little bit, almost like going to Vegas. Um, in a sense, where it’s like if you go to Vegas hoping to make money, you’re probably gonna have a bad time. But if you go to Vegas, just looking to have, you know, looking for entertainment and for an experience, and I think in the case of web three also looking for education, then you can have a great time.

And so what I mean by that is you probably want to have some money that you can buy an NFT and, and you know, an NFT essentially just unlocks a door, Okay, what’s behind that door? What do I get? What do I get to experience? And so having, you know, taking some money, buying some NFTs, again, money that you would feel comfortable losing if everything just goes to zero.

But then being able to have that experience and gain that knowledge. Can really be beneficial because I think there’s only so much that you can hear people talk about it and hear the theory of it, and you hear the good stuff and you hear the bad stuff. Well, yeah, like I’ve been involved in different projects.

I’ve gotten completely rugged on projects, meaning I’ve invested money and then just had the, I mean literally just had the project go dark the next day. Uh, and I’ve had other ones where you know, they just continue to surprise me with how great they’re executing and doing every single thing that they’re gonna say.

And I couldn’t necessarily predict it before getting involved in it. And so I think there is some value in, whether it’s an investment of time or an investment of money, just going out and exploring because you will find, I think pretty much everybody will find communities that speak to them, um, in, in the web three space.

And so, finding what those communities are and what you can learn from them, this is a great time to do that. Uh, it really is because a lot of the hype is gone and it’s just a lot of smart, motivated people building stuff they believe in. And it’s fun to be around communities like that. I, I am enjoying it so much more now than when the market was at its peak. 

Now, you know, the , the accounts aren’t doing as well, you know, but I’m enjoying it and learning more and having a better experience. And so that’s the thing is I think, I just think web three’s gonna be a lot healthier when it’s not all about the financial incentives. And that’s not the top line story is how much money people are making, how much money people are losing. It will always be a part of it. Um, but now it’s much more about what can we build together And that’s fun. Yeah, and that’s exciting. 

[00:36:09] 

Mich Bondesio: 

Very good points. So on that note and on that wonderful Vegas analogy that you gave us, um, let’s end off. Where is the best place for people to find you online Jerod? 

[00:36:20] 

Jerod Morris: 

I haven’t been as active on Twitter lately. You know, it’s funny, I dive in so much on my communities that I don’t do as much public content anymore. Um, so I think listening to the 7 Figure Small podcast, which we recently re-launched, is probably the best thing Brian Trudi and I are doing, uh, doing that podcast. Mm-hmm. And so I think that’s a, a great place for people to go.

We’re getting ready to release, or maybe it’ll be released by the time this podcast comes out, The Playbook newsletter and course, um, you know, for anybody who’s looking to build an audience-based business. So those are, those are probably the two best ways. But also you can always just email me, Jerod at unemployable.com if you have questions about any of this stuff or wanna share experiences.

Like I said, I’m, I don’t know, I do less of the public stuff cuz I’m just much more about the connection. And so I, I tend to kind of connect more with the people that are inside the communities. So, but yeah, if anybody has questions or wants to connect, I would love to. 

[00:37:13] 

Mich Bondesio: 

That’s very generous Jerod, thank you so much. It’s been really lovely chatting to you as always, and I really appreciate you sharing these insights with me and my listeners today. Thanks. 

[00:37:23] 

Jerod Morris: 

Absolutely. Thank you. It was my pleasure.

[00:37:26] 

Mich Bondesio: 

In the spirit of embracing new and emerging technology. This episode has been recorded and edited with the help of software. Such as Rode Connect, Zencaster, Auphonic and Descript, which employ AI powered technology as part of their functionality. 

If you have any thoughts about this episode, please drop me a line with your questions or comments, you can write to hello@creatingcadence.co. The resources mentioned in this episode are listed in the show notes at creatingcadence.co, where you can also sign up to the fortnightly Cadence Newsletter, which is a free accompaniment to the podcast, where I share more resources.

If you like the show, please share the love by rating it or supporting Creating Cadence on Patreon or Buy Me A Coffee. Links to those also at creatingcadence.co. 

So thanks for listening. Until next time, keep moving forwards, with courage, curiosity, and cadence. Bye for now.

Resources & References

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Jerod Morris

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