Ep.50 – Kelly Berry – Intentional Productivity, Accountability & Futures Thinking
For Episode 50, Kelly Berry of Learn Start Grow shares about her own intentional productivity journey, the power of accountability groups, and how futures thinking can help small business owners to solve their challenges.
Creating Cadence Podcast Transcript – Episode 50
[00:00:00] Hi, and welcome to Creating Cadence, a podcast for life and work in motion.
I’m your host, Mich Bondesio, a writer, coach consultant and solo entrepreneur. I’m also the author of The Cadence Effect.
I help high achievers stuck on the toxic treadmill of overwork to transform how they approach life, work and business.
So they can activate more of their potential and perform better in every part of their life. At a cadence that’s more suitable to them. Despite this fast-paced world we live in.
This is episode 50, the sixth episode of season eight, published in October, 2023.
So I’m back in the thick of things, finally over my head cold and croaky voice and bracing for a change in the weather. Although I’m reminiscing about all the lovely sunny weather from a recent trip away, there’s also something to look forward to as autumn arrives up north in the UK. And that is the magic of the changing leaves.
And here’s a bit of a funny story. I used to hate the colour yellow. Until I moved up north and started to truly appreciate the rich yellows and oranges on display in nature at this time of year.
In the same way that we change our wardrobe for a change of season, it’s also a time for adaptation in other parts of our lives. An opportunity to change our routines, habits, behaviours, and mindset.
For example, as part of my own way of honouring and embracing the nights drawing in, I tend to go to bed earlier and I spend more time reading than watching TV. I also light candles and put on the twinkly lights as these help to bolster my mood during dark days. I also change my exercise routines, tending to do more yoga in the mornings and changing my walking routine to a lunchtime walk, as opposed to early morning. This means that I may also shift when I do focused work to do different things at different times of the day.
This is all part of creating cadence. Adjusting your routines and rituals to match the changing seasons. These adaptations also help to support my productivity at this time of year. And they can do the same for you.
We’ll be covering routines and rituals as part of the new coaching and accountability programme that I’m launching in early 2024. This new programme is geared to help overworked high achievers to transform how you work. So you can be more purposeful with your productivity and craft a healthier, more meaningful life, too.
I’ll be sharing more about this at the end of the month. And my cadence newsletter subscribers will get first dibs. So head to creatingcadence.co/subscribe to sign up so that you can be the first to hear about special offers and early bird pricing.
This brings me to another review of my book, the Cadence Effect, this time by Pat Williams, who is a future guest on the podcast this season.
Pat has written the following on Amazon:
“I’ve spent most of my life chasing that elusive balance. The right balance between work and family, clients, friends, self care, and health. Just as I’d get on the tip of the needle, something would happen and my balance would go to hell in a hand basket. I’d spend months trying to balance on that tip of the needle again, and was left feeling as though nothing was good enough.
Enter The Cadence Effect. What a mindset shift for me! I don’t need to worry about balance anymore because cadence is a much more friendly version of the dance we do in our lives. It’s a more positive approach to our lives and it feels good.”
Well, thank you so much for your review, Pat, that’s much appreciated! If like Pat, you have found yourself scrambling to do it all and always feeling like you’re about to fall off the tip of the needle, then you will find my book helpful, too. Head over to TheCadenceEffect.com to get your own copy.
So now onto the interview section of this episode, where I have a lovely chat with Kelly Berry.
Kelly Berry is the owner of Learn Start Grow LLC, a business that supports small businesses and solopreneurs with futures thinking market research, peer groups, and goal setting.
After consulting with hundreds of startups and small business owners over many years. Kelly noticed that most of them are dealing with the same issues, but they don’t realize that they’re not alone. Learn Start Grows’ mission is to bring these business owners together to address common issues and find new ways to grow in this ever-changing world.
Kelly is a licensed CEO peer group facilitator and runs groups in person and online. She’s also a certified market research specialist and a strategic research team leader for the National Center for Economic Gardening. She has also taught marketing market research and entrepreneurship classes to undergraduates, MBA students, and business owners.
By her own admission. Kelly is a small business advocate, keen organizer, and nerdy spreadsheet gal, and we have a wonderful conversation that covers everything from designing a work-life around not being a morning person; to her own experience of shifting to a cadence-first view that focuses on intentional productivity instead of the mindset of seeing being busy as a measure of success.
We also cover the benefits of peer group accountability and how Kelly helps businesses to future-proof their business, so they can build better cadence in their workdays.
I love Kelly’s dry wit and her incredible insights into the future of work. And I admire her down-to-earth, practical approach to helping business owners tackle what can seem like overwhelming business problems when faced alone. I think that many of my listeners will relate to the many relevant points she makes about the challenges that small business owners face.
I’ll talk about some of these points a bit more at the end of the episode. So stick around for that too. And now if you’re ready, let’s dive into this week’s interview with Kelly Berry.
So welcome Kelly. It’s lovely to have you on the show.
[00:05:30] Thanks much, Mich. It’s great to be here.
[00:05:33] So to start, I’m gonna provide some context for my listeners as to how we know each other. Like some of my other guests this season, you and I are members of the longstanding Unemployable Initiative, which is an online community of solo entrepreneurs, and we got to hang out together with some of the community last year at the Creator Economy Expo in Phoenix, Arizona, which was a lot of fun.
And more recently, you were also one of my beta readers for my new book, the Cadence Effect, which is the theme of this season of the podcast. And you provided incredible suggestions that helped me to refine and improve the book, including adding some of the visuals, which are now part of the book, and which based on the feedback I’ve gotten so far, people seem to really love.
So a huge thank you to you for your input on the book.
[00:06:14] Well, thank you for the opportunity to be a beta reader. It was a lot of fun.
[00:06:19] It was indeed. So before we dive into the various things that you do as part of your work.
First I’d like my listeners to know a little bit more about you and your current context. Where do you find yourself in your life at the moment?
What are the positive aspects and the challenges that you’re experiencing?
How is this stage or time in your life impacting on your wellbeing, creativity, and productivity.
[00:06:40] All right, well, I’m an empty nester, so I have two kids in their early twenties and my husband owns his own business as well. And so it can be just a little bit too easy for both of us to spend all of our time working. And I have discovered that that is not good for my mental health.
So I am learning to do a better job at finding that cadence, which has been elusive for much of my life as I raised kids.
[00:07:10] That’s a really good point, and I think a couple of my other guests have raised similar challenges and issues with this time of life. It’s very easy to fill that extra space with work, but also it’s an opportunity to recreate and find other interesting things to do with your time.
So, Let’s talk through a kind of a typical day for you, an ideal day, when everything goes right, in terms of maybe a morning routine that you might have, and in terms of how you set yourself up to be as productive as you can be.
What does that look like for you?
[00:07:42] Okay. Well I am decidedly not a morning person as much as I’ve tried to be. I have to acknowledge that’s not the fact I can’t do work. That requires a lot of thinking in the morning, and I have discovered that. The best thing for me, my ideal day, no meetings first thing in the morning. So I try to avoid that at all costs.
The best thing would be to start with a nice healthy breakfast. I like to eat yogurt with some fresh fruit, and then some yoga. So this has become a new habit that I started during Covid. I actually had a buddy, a friend who also wanted to start doing yoga, and we agreed to kinda hold each other accountable, where we would check in every morning, are you doing yoga?
And then we would actually FaceTime right after we did it. So I couldn’t certainly not do it, you know, I don’t wanna lie to my friend or wear yoga clothes and pretend I was doing yoga. But what I discovered was after, you know, committing to doing it regularly, I got into the habit of doing it and now it has become part of my morning routine.
And it is so much easier to walk into my home office , having done the yoga, which I did already do this morning. I’m feeling, I feel calmer, I feel more focused. Things don’t feel as urgent, and so I have a better sense of how to prioritize my time for the rest of the day. And I know that the afternoon is my peak productivity time, so I really try to get other tasks done in the morning, you know, answer a bunch of emails, do some reading, but then if I have to really do a lot of thinking, that’s better late afternoon.
[00:09:16] Well, I think that’s a great example that you’ve given of the element of accountability in helping to cement positive habits and new behaviours when you are accountable to somebody else.
You don’t feel like you want to let them down. It also helps you to stay on track. and I think that ties in really well with what we’ll talk about a bit later with regards to the work that you do in the peer groups that you do, because I’m presuming there’s definitely an element of accountability with that as well.
[00:09:41] Oh, absolutely. Yeah.
[00:09:42] So how about towards the end of the day, how do you close off your workday? Do you have any practices or habits?
[00:09:49] Um, that’s trickier. For sure later in the afternoon , you know, I’ll be key productivity, busy writing, typing, reading, putting things together. I have two dogs, and the two dogs will insist on a walk by late afternoon if they haven’t had it already, and they kind of force me to take a break and stop and stand up.
And so we typically go for a walk in the late afternoon before dinnertime. Because I have no choice in the matter, they start to get obnoxious. One of them will cry and whine, and the other one actually will physically knock my hand off the keyboard, making it nearly impossible to work.
So that’s an excellent reminder that it’s time for me to stand up and walk away from my office.
And once I do that, I find that the things I was working on aren’t nearly as urgent as I thought they were. So getting that break is super helpful. I used to walk the dogs and talk on the phone and listen to podcasts and feel like it had to be productive time. But, lately I have started to just, you know, no music, no talking, just me and the dogs and birds in the trees and whatever.
And that is also really helpful and that’s kind of been a reminder to me that it’s time to transition to the next stage of the day. And you know, again, maybe text my husband and remind him, Hey, you’re supposed to be coming home also so that we can have some downtime. Because again, with both of us working in our own jobs, it can be almost too easy to just never stop.
So, I guess I have to thank the dogs for forcing me to look up and be aware of time again.
[00:11:19] They’re your accountability partners and your alarm clock. That’s excellent.
So, you’ve read the book, you understand the concepts behind cadence, you’ve indicated to me that some of the contents of the book have helped you to make some change in your life, so I think you have quite a deep understanding of what I mean by cadence.
So, you know, cadence means different things for different people, even though it also reflects this idea of rhythm and pace and momentum. But what does it mean to you? How does it resonate for you specifically?
[00:11:49] Well, I think for me I see it partly as just the ebb and flow of my day. And some of it is work, some of it is yoga, some of it’s dog walking, some of it is maybe coffee with a friend or playing tennis, or, you know, in the summertime my husband and I like to sit outside on our gazebo and just watch the lake or watch the sunset.
And so it’s a good reminder that, you know, you can focus on one thing, but then you need to kinda let it go and, and move on to something else.
It’s also a helpful concept because, and I think we’ve talked about this before, the concept of balance and your excellent seesaw illustration, really hit home to me that that’s an impossible task to have everything balanced all the time and the concept of cadence and that ebb and flow is more realistic.
And you’d know that it’s not always gonna work great, and there may be some weeks where I have to just power through some serious amount of work, and it’s not gonna be fun and there’s not gonna be a lot of downtime. But then I know that it’s important to take that extra downtime after that hard work because first of all, for my own mental and physical health, I need to have that break.
But second of all, and this is what I’m discovering having read your book, is that I become more creative and have better ideas when I walk away from everything. And it allows me to do a better job by not working, which feels ironic to me that that’s how I need to do, what I need to do to do a better job.
But, hugely beneficial to really experience that instead of just reading about it and say, yes, my brain needs this time.
And then also to forgive myself if I do forget to get up and walk away from my computer and know that it’s not an all or nothing thing that we all will screw up every now and again and not find the time for yoga or meditation, or say no to the lunch.
And maybe I should have said yes, that’s okay.
Because it’s an ongoing process. It’s not binary.
I like that component of it. It gives me permission to keep at it.
[00:13:57] Yeah. I love the way you’ve described it as an ebb and flow concept, ’cause it is very much like that. It’s like a dance. It’s about the movement. It’s needs to be elastic in terms of your routines and your habits and your behaviours, and to accept that you’re not always gonna get it right and that you adapt and adjust to the needs and demands of your day and your week.
So let’s talk a little bit about your work. Your background is in market research. I know that you’re in transition with the work that you’re doing, and you do lots of different things that are all really interesting. And on your website you describe yourself as a small business advocate, organiser and nerdy spreadsheet gal, which I really love.
And you offer common sense advice and helpful resources for the everyday entrepreneur.
So tell us a little bit more about the specific things that you are doing and then we’ll talk about how they help your clients and customers to create more cadence in their lives and
[00:14:46] Okay, well I’ve had this tremendous opportunity in the last five or six years to work with an organization that has clients all over the country here in the United States, and that has put me in front of small businesses, owners all over the country, helping them.
You know, I, I go on a discovery call with ’em and they tell me all the things they’re worried about, that they’re concerned about. And I try to find ways that we can connect them with some specialists that can provide them with information that will help them make some decisions.
So, I love the opportunity to be in front of all those business owners. In some cases I’m doing market research for them. In some cases I’m just kind of a team lead, gathering the specialists and monitoring the whole process.
In addition to that, I run business owner roundtable groups right now locally in my area. I’ve been doing that since 2019. And again, I’m in front of a bunch of business owners that are telling me all their worries and concerns. And so I may not be a business owner like my clients. Most of those are, they’re B two B, many of them industrial or manufacturing, dealing with employee and recruitment issues as well as machinery and capital equipment.
I don’t have those issues personally, but I’ve had the opportunity to be in front of hundreds of business owners all telling me their issues, the things that are weighing on them that are keeping them up at night, and I see so many common threads because I’ve had that opportunity to be in front of so many of them.
And so really what I’m trying to do is tailor my business to address the fact that I can see what they can’t see. And a lot of it, a lot of the common issues relate to exactly what you’ve been talking about. Cadence. They’re overworked. They’re busy. They don’t know how to delegate well, they don’t know how to prioritise.
The putting fires out takes precedence over longer range planning. They know they should do it differently. They don’t know how to do it differently. And so what I’m really trying to do is to more of a subscription-based business where I can be the one that helps hold them accountable, that helps organize what they’re doing and track those processes that can help them break bigger things into smaller pieces so it feels more doable.
That’s really where I’m headed because of the fact that I’ve had this opportunity over so many years to see what they can’t see, which is that they all have so much in common and they just don’t know it.
[00:17:05] And through your peer groups you and groups, you’re bringing them together to share that knowledge. And very often that’s the best way for people to learn and then implement.
[00:17:14] I agree completely. And that’s, that’s what’s so beneficial.
And you know, initially I had. somewhat of an imposter syndrome. Like I am not a business owner that has had these experiences. Who am I to run this peer group? But in reality, my role is to be a facilitator. An organizer, you know, pull the people together, combine their thinking and their comments into something that is, you know, kind of synthesize their thoughts in a way that maybe they couldn’t do independently.
The value from what I’m offering, is just the facilitating component, but the real value is pulling them all together. And that’s the same thing I’m trying to do online, is what I can see in person in these peer group meetings is that getting in front of your peers and learning from them, sharing your problems, sharing your experiences, sharing your wins makes a huge difference.
And there’s an accountability piece of it, but then there’s also that sense of, I’m not alone in this. Everyone else is having the same struggles. And in our peer group meetings, we always start with an update from each member. And they’re required to talk about what’s going well for them personally and professionally, because when you are a business owner, they’re so intertwined that you can’t fully separate them.
And so, you end up hearing about people’s personal issues and issues with their spouse or their kids and someone wants to move here, and all these things that don’t seem business related, but they absolutely impact the business. And knowing that they’re not alone in that can make them feel so much better.
[00:18:44] Yeah, and I, and I suppose they can learn from how other people have tackled those challenges as well. To help them work through them. It’s fantastic, you create that platform, as you said, in person and online.
And another two ways that you are doing it is through your five for Friday videos and also your more in-depth newsletter.
And you know, I think what you’re doing is wonderful, because the skills that you’ve developed as a market researcher help you to identify what the trends are in the market and with business and with the workplace. And you are curating that in bite-size format for people to consume in ways that’s easy for them at a time that works for them, so they can stay on track with, as you call them, the signals of change.
So tell us a little bit more about those two products.
[00:19:27] Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think, again, having listened and talked to so many small business owners, and then actually during Covid, I took a series of courses in Coursera on futures thinking and market research, and the peer groups all kind of melded in my head as like the perfect combination.
I’m used to seeking out the research and the data that can help drive decision making, but at the same time, we don’t know what the future looks like. And so the only way to try to anticipate that is to try to look at what’s going on in the world around us. And so the concept of a signal of change is something that’s happening now that is a little outside the norm that might indicate that there’s going to be a change that we should be aware of and looking for.
And as a market researcher, I subscribe to more than I should in terms of news , you know, The Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, New York Times, Forbes, Fortune Inc. Fast Company, Business Insider, you name it. And I love to read, and as I read, I start to see commonalities.
And I’m always thinking of them with my small business owner hat on. And so that’s kind of how the Five for Friday came about is I’m already reading all this stuff. I’m already seeing it, and then I keep wanting to share it with people. I’m like, well, how can I share it in a way that isn’t too intrusive?
Like emailing the article links to everybody. You should read this. You should read this. So instead it kind of turned into a short five minute video that I post on YouTube every week and I pick five topics and try to just summarise as close to five minutes as I can. Here are five things that really stood out to me that I think matter to small business owners.
And frankly, even though right now, I mean the videos are free, that’s one of the things I love the most about what I’m doing with my time. Because I feel like it’s so important to be watching and paying attention to what’s going on so that small business owners can be ready and maybe even be more competitive because they’re paying attention to those changes and they’re ready for them.
They’re ready to make a change if needed, rather than reacting to it.
[00:21:27] Mm-hmm. So I think that’s really great in terms of if you equate that with how that helps your potential clients and customers and audience to create more cadence in their work days and so forth, is that you’re making them more productive because you are saving them time in terms of providing a curated service of information for them so they can stay on track and on top of these things.
But also in a way, I think you’re supporting their wellbeing because you’re helping to create peace of mind about the uncertainties of what’s coming ahead by providing that information and knowledge.
[00:21:56] Well, thanks. I love that you think of it that way.
Yeah, it’s meant to be informative and helpful, but also maybe a little bit entertaining and maybe that makes it easier to take advantage of it and then start thinking about how it could affect your business. And, you know, a lot of the things that I’m recognizing as signals of change aren’t necessarily super business focused either.
You know, we’re seeing a huge change in how people want to work. The demand for flexibility for mental health care, people in their twenties see things differently and there’s been a lot of resistance among the older generation when they hire the young kids. However, I think that the young kids have it right and that the world should have operated like this when I was that age, and my life would’ve been a whole lot easier.
So, you know, I can see how they’ve learned their lesson perhaps through Covid as well, that you need to prioritize your mental health. You need to have some control and flexibility over your work schedule, and you’ll do a better job and be more productive if you recognize that, which is so important.
And we’ve learned that lesson perhaps the hard way. And they’re promoting it already right out of the bat, right out of college or wherever they’re coming from, to this is important, this matters. I need to prioritize this.
[00:23:16] Yeah, and that’s another aspect of cadence is placing purpose at the heart of how you work, wellbeing and purpose. So I love that you’ve mentioned that.
Alright, Kelly, so to end off, do you have any words of advice or key learnings or suggestions that you want to share with my listeners based on your business or life experience?
[00:23:33] You know, one thing that really resonated with me was the idea of that intentional productivity. I think a lot of times, even though I’m here by myself in my home office, we all try to feel like we’re being busy, and that seems to be the measure of success.
Everyone talks, how are you? Oh, I’m busy. How about you? Oh, I’m so busy. Oh, that’s great. You know, but no. That should not be our measure of success. I think if you take that step back and think what really matters to get done today, what’s really important, it’s not answering a bazillion emails and I don’t need to follow and track them all day long with notifications popping up.
I can put some control over that, as well as the social media. Even if I need LinkedIn to connect with my future customers, I don’t need to be on it all the time. So being very intentional about how I’m spending my time, being in tune with my body, and understanding what my sleep habits are and my exercise habits, and when my brain is working at full speed and when it’s not, those are also important.
And then just forgiveness, being willing to know that, like I said, it’s an ebb and flow and sometimes things go great and sometimes they don’t. But it doesn’t mean you failed. It just means we’re always trying to find, you know, the best way to be the best person we can mentally, physically, through work and personal life.
[00:24:54] Exactly. I like the way that you’ve said that. Tomorrow is always another day to try again.
[00:24:59] Yeah. Yeah. Well, and the best thing, Mich, is that when I was reading your book as a beta reader, I was reading it on the balcony of my hotel room in Mexico, on vacation. And now, every time I think of your book, I picture myself in the most relaxing spot, feeling incredibly relaxed and enjoying what I learned.
And so every time I think of your book now, it brings me to this calming place. And so that was an added bonus I think that I had the opportunity to just sit and relax and read something that was really helpful for me.
[00:25:36] Oh, thank you so much. And that is definitely the cadence effect in action, so I love that example that you’ve provided. Thank you.
Alright, Kelly, where can people find you online?
[00:25:46] Well, they can go to my website at www.Learnstartgrow.com, which is the easiest place for them to find a way to subscribe to the Five for Friday videos. There’s also a paid newsletter that is a written newsletter that provides all the hyperlinks that I’ve used and a little bit more on my take as to why these topics were important.
So all of that you can find on my website. LearnStartGrow.com.
[00:26:07] That’s wonderful. Kelly, thank you so, so much. I’ve really enjoyed chatting with you.
[00:26:11] Thank you. This was a pleasure. Thanks so much, Mich.
[00:26:14] So listening back, I’m struck by just how generous Kelly has been in sharing her experience of implementing new intentional productivity practices. And also her astute insights about the challenges that small business owners face.
Here’s some thoughts from me on a few of the pertinent points that Kelly raised.
The first thing I want to talk about is daily cadence.
Kelly is clear on the fact that she is not a morning person and through trial and error, she has come up with a loose and comfortable framework for structuring her workday in a way that supports this.
Now, I write about circadian and ultradian rhythms in my book, The Cadence Effect. In the book, I delve into how we can improve our performance and wellbeing when we structure our types of work around when our energy and focus is naturally at its highest during the day.
It’s important to note that this differs from person to person. And it’s not only about whether you’re a morning person or a night owl. There are several different permutations of chronotype, which can affect which times of the day are more productive for you. Chances are you may be squandering all your creative energy having meetings at less than optimal times.
Introducing a more flexible work style and schedule is also important in supporting our mental health, which in turn supports our productivity, too. So, if you have any measure of control of your calendar and how your day goes, particularly if you’re self employed or a small business owner, then please do give serious consideration to natural energy cycles and how they impact on your performance at work. And check out The Cadence Effect for more info on this, and suggestions for ways to leverage these cycles to your benefit.
The second point I want to cover is about the benefits of having peer accountability as a small business owner.
Kelly mentioned that in the groups she facilitates, her participants share what’s going on both personally and professionally, because to quote Kelly, “when you’re a business owner, you can’t fully separate them”.
Her people share things that, on the surface, may not seem business-related, but they all do impact the business. And I agree wholeheartedly with this observation. As I write in my book, we seem to think it’s important to have different identities at work and in the rest of our life to match the different roles that we fulfill. But the reality is that we can’t compartmentalize our feelings.
We carry how we feel with us. The things that happen at work, which cause stress, affect home life, and vice versa. And you may not feel comfortable talking about the challenges you face at work with loved ones at home.
So it’s important to have a trusted space where you can share the stuff you can’t share at home, with like-minded people who can relate to what you’re going through, but who are separate from your situation.
There are many forms of peer group communities, both online and in-person. Personally, I’ve taken part in these types of support groups before and benefitted immensely from the guidance and objective viewpoints, as well as the relatability of the members of the group.
The last point I want to look at is the idea of cadence versus balance, which Kelly also raised during our conversation.
Focusing on creating work-life cadence, instead of balance is the premise of my whole book, The Cadence Effect, because as Kelly observes, it’s a more realistic mindset and approach to how we can manage the different things in our life.
When we are constantly trying to achieve work-life balance, and not succeeding at doing so for anything more than a moment, it makes us feel like we’re failing, which just adds stress to our lives.
It’s a totally impractical, unrealistic, and inflexible concept. In fact, I think the idea of work-life balance is bullshit, because balance is a static state and it doesn’t move. As Kelly points out, balance is binary, but life is not.
For Kelly, cadence means working according to an ebb and flow, which I love. She’s referring to adapting your energy and work approach based on managing times of intensity with times of flow and the importance of supporting your workflow with planned times of rest and slower productivity too.
It’s about learning to accept that there will be times of fast paced work, and slower times. And embracing the idea that the flow of our day-to-day tasks can be elastic. When we see it like this, it’s easier to adapt to the ever-changing needs of our days, our lives and our work, without feeling like we’ve been thrown off kilter every time a spanner hits the fan.
With regards to creating cadence, it’s also important to note that it’s an ongoing process and we are always a work in progress. We are always learning, changing, and adapting, and that’s why elasticity is important in the way that we work.
A few things before I end off…
You can find out more about my new book at TheCadenceEffect.com. And helpful reviews are always welcome to help the book get found by those who need it.
A reminder too that if you want to be the first to hear about the special offers relating to the new coaching cohort that’s coming in early 2024, please sign up for the cadence newsletter at CreatingCadence.co/subscribe.
Thanks again for listening. Until next time, keep moving forwards with courage, curiosity, and cadence.
Bye for now.
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